'Girls': Lena Dunham's HBO Show Episode 10 Finale, Discussed In Gchat

Margaret Wheeler Johnson: "Girls" Episode 10: The Finale. So, the season is complete. Should we look at how accurate our predictions for the final episode were?
Lori Fradkin: Ray and Shosh? Check.
Margaret: Adam moving in?
Emma Gray: Check the bad idea part ...
Margaret: I think we get points for it.
Emma: Booth Jonathan NOT making an appearance (sad). Check.
Lori: My idea that Jessa would hook up with Ray? WRONG.
Margaret: Can't win 'em all. Speaking of which, guess what we didn't predict: Jessa MARRYING that guy.
Emma: That was pretty unexpected. Does this mean that Chris O'Dowd is now a "Girls" regular?
Margaret: Does this mean that Jessa can't drink red wine at home? Should we just talk about Jessa first?


Margaret: Do we believe this character would really do this?
Emma: I was actually struggling with that. I found myself completely unsure.
Lori: I think she would.
Margaret: Would she do it because she wanted to marry him or just to f*ck with everyone?
Emma: I think maybe she just needed to do something insane after her conversation with Kathryn last week.
Margaret: That's a good point. Kathryn laid out a path forward so beautifully. It's very Jessa to rebel against that.
Lori: This is another way for her to defy expectations.
Emma: I was genuinely surprised, right along with Marnie, Shosh and Hannah (whose faces were priceless, by the way).
Lori: Marnie seemed more amused than I thought she would be. She was trying to be Fun Marnie.
Margaret: Yes, she was working Fun Marnie the whole time. Truthfully, I don't know who that is.
Emma: I don't think she knows who that is. But I think she needs to explore it.
Lori: Side note: I didn't like Fun Marnie's hair. It was all crimpy.
Margaret: Not at all.
Emma: Hence the J. Lo-at-the-Grammys reference. (Love you, Andrew Rannells!)
Margaret: Earned -- that neckline??? But we digress.
Lori: Shoshanna seemed to take the surprise wedding the hardest of all.
Margaret: Wait, let's stay with Jessa for a second. What's ahead for her? I feel like she'll get bored in 20 minutes and annul the thing.
Emma: I think Jessa as a newlywed could be a really great plot device, if they deal with it in a funny way next season. The whole time I was just thinking about how incredibly lame Thomas-John was.
Lori: Thomas-John is really lame. I don't think Jessa would have changed her mind about him like that. So I guess I believe she would have a spontaneous wedding, but not with him.
Emma: You're right: Thomas-John was the issue. I completely bought the surprise wedding -- that's so something she would do and relish shocking everyone -- but that dude is such a big baby. She'll get tired of him instantly.
Margaret: Or maybe she likes the fact that he's so repugnant. I can see crazy Jessa being turned on by that.
Lori: Remember when he gave a shout-out to Marnie about how he thought they were going to have a threesome?
Margaret: The shout-out was amazing. "Wassup, Marnie!"
Emma: That was fabulous.
Lori: What did you think of Jessa's conversation with Hannah in the bathroom? By the way, Hannah, get off the floor!
Margaret: Jessa: "I love you. You're so fucking gross."
Lori: That IS gross. She's not even drunk. She's just lying on a bathroom floor.
Emma: It kind of mirrored those bathroom scenes from the first episode. It's like they're required to have heart-to-hearts while peeing.
Margaret: Hannah seems to feel really comfortable in bathrooms.
Emma: Exactly. I thought that overall the scene was sweet, though. I liked that Hannah asked Jessa if she felt like a "real adult."
Margaret: Which raises the question of whether marriage is in fact the portal to adulthood. Hannah hints that it is, but Jessa's whole wedding seems to emphasize that it's clearly not. And of course this episode is about Hannah's fears of committing to a relationship too soon, but we'll get to that.
Emma: Looking at the reality of what Jessa is stepping into, I'd say that it's not a rite of passage for her.
Margaret: I agree. I think it's just this crazy thing she's doing that's probably a bad idea, but hey, great party!
Emma: I think that this show as a whole really underscores that for the Millennial generation, there aren't necessarily these clear milestones that make you an "adult." It's messy and individual. For one person a marriage could be the start of a really serious, settled adult life. For another it could just be one more childish mistake.
Margaret: Do we think that's unique to Millennials, though? Hasn't that been going on for a while?
Lori: I think Hannah realizes that it's a big deal. We can talk about this more later, but I think she gets relationships more than she thinks she does. She thinks she's such a mess, but she has good role models in her parents, and I think she understands that relationships take time to evolve.
Emma: I agree. I think that she gets a lot of things more than she thinks she does. She just doesn't give herself any credit.
Lori: What did you make of her kissing Jessa on the lips? Just friendly? We've talked about her love of Jessa ...
Margaret: I think Hannah wants to have some deeper level of connection with Jessa that this scene made me think isn't necessarily homoerotic. She just wants to be important to Jessa, and maybe borrow a little of her glamour.
Emma: Yeah, I got the sense that the kiss was just a kiss, just a way for Hannah to show deep affection for her friend who's going off on a new crazy adventure.
Margaret: I thought there was a little more in it than that -- some desire to reinforce their connection -- and then Jessa pushed her away, which was interesting.
Lori: I think Hannah was just mystified by the whole thing. She wants so badly to have this bond with Jessa, and now Jessa has this "deep" connection with someone else. Not that Hannah wants Jessa in that way, but as you said, Margaret, it's about being important to Jessa.
Emma: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Hannah's always cared about Jessa in a different way than she cares about her other friends. As we've said, Hannah sort of reveres her.
Margaret: Speaking of Hannah's friendships, should we move to Marnie?


Emma: Such a different look from her "stripped down" sadness of last week!
Lori: Marnie had some crazy dance moves. She was ready to party.
Emma: She was! Also -- moving in with Shosh?
Lori: Shosh was so excited!
Margaret: Seems like that may be permanent, no?
Lori: Yes, if Jessa moves in with her new husband, Marnie can stay.
Emma: I think it's really positive that Marnie actually moved out. I was thinking a lot about how difficult it can be to live with a best friend and how good it can be to recognize that sometimes.
Lori: Also, it seems she and Hannah have semi-recovered from their blowout.
Emma: Yeah, but I was glad that it didn't seem all fixed.
Margaret: Me too. Marnie to Hannah: "Don't push." And the way Hannah greeted her at the wedding felt authentic. Hannah was clearly nervous and making an effort to be cute and maintain their rapport.
Emma: I think Hannah really got it when she said that Marnie was "not even angry, I don't think, she's just hurt." That hurt takes longer to heal than the anger. I think they're over the anger.
Lori: Adam was all philosophical about it. "Holding on to toxic relationships is what keeps us from growing."
Margaret: I was over his speaking in Successories as soon as he started. (Yes, that was a SkyMall reference.)
Lori: Did he pick that up in his recovery?
Margaret: Oooh, possibly. That makes sense. It is very 12-Steppy.
Lori: Or is it just how they all kind of talk? I think we've called it therapy-speak before. Just in Adam's case, it's coming from AA and his specific struggles.
Emma: I agree. That line seemed very Adam-specific.
Lori: OK, let's continue with Marnie ... and Charlie.
Margaret: Charlie clearly wanted to hook up in the bathroom. And he also thinks Audrey's blog is lame.
Emma: Charlie looked hot (again)! Nice skinny tie! And yes, he definitely wanted to sleep with Marnie.
Margaret: I was sort of surprised she didn't go for it and that she went for the comedian instead. But I also kind of liked her more for it.
Emma: She wanted to find someone amusing and just go for it. So she did.
Lori: She went for the comedian because she was wasted and he was THERE. I bet if she'd seen Charlie later, she would have been game for bathroom sex.
Margaret: See, I thought she actually liked him a little. I guess I'm being overly rom-commy.
Lori: She will sober up and decide he doesn't meet her standard.
Emma: I think she just wanted to have fun. But I liked that they avoided the obvious jump-back-into-bed-with-the-ex plot (though I assume it will happen at some point).
Margaret: I also liked that.
Emma: She didn't want to sleep with Charlie and deal with all that that would entail.
Lori: But if she had slept with Charlie, I bet the sex would have been better than when they were together.
Emma: Oh definitely! He was on fire with that sex-on-the-sink fantasy.
Lori: What I liked about Marnie here was that she was letting loose and making normal 20-something mistakes.
Margaret: Yes.
Emma: Same! But I don't even know if I'd qualify making out with comedian guy a "mistake." It just matters how she ends up feeling about it later.
Lori: I don't think it was mistake, but I think she will think it was. Also, she ate cake with her hands.
Margaret: That was awesome. So un-Marnie.
Emma: I loved it! And I think she kind of loved it. I'm pretty excited to see how her character develops next season. Should we move onto Ray and Shosh?
Margaret: YES.


Emma: Before we begin, this is Ray's Twitter handle photo.
Lori: That is wonderful.
Emma: I like Ray more and more each episode.
Lori: I loved when Ray told Hannah they were in the same friendship circle.
Emma: SAME!
Lori: So Ray is genuinely excited to see Shoshanna. But why didn't her call her? Or text her? He didn't want to check on her post-crack experience? Or would that be too proactive? He is her Spirit Guide.
Margaret: I think he probably wanted to approach her in person.
Emma: I think that he's genuinely surprised by how much he's drawn to her (i.e., he explicitly says that).
Margaret: "You're the strangest person. You vibrate on a very strange frequency." What a come-on.
Lori: I loved it. He's so straightforward about it. He just comes out and says he wants to go home with her.
Emma: They're just both no bullshit kind of people.
Margaret: They're so perfect for each other.
Emma: I was so happy. We're gushing, aren't we.
Margaret: We are. But there were two things Shosh said that I want to talk about:
1) On what was bothering her about the wedding: "Everyone's a dumb whore." Who was she talking about? Jessa? Is this anger about her virginity?
2) She tells Ray to "stay out of my emotional way." I wouldn't have expected the youngest, most enthusiastic member of the Carrie Bradshaw fan club to want that.
Emma: Well, as we said before, she was really pissed off about not being clued in about Jessa's wedding.
Lori: Re: #2, she was less romantic than I would expect.
Emma: Same -- maybe all the online dating coupled with the terrible oral sex from that Camp Ramah guy jaded her?
Lori: I think at this point she just wants to get sex over with.
Margaret: I think a lot of women feel that way about their first time.
Lori: And she can't even focus on Ray's potential for something beyond that.
Emma: Yeah, I buy that. Her virginal status has kind of defined her this whole season (at least in her mind). She wants to get rid of her "biggest baggage."
Margaret: So she gets rid of it! Woohoo!
Lori: I like how Ray was like, "Do I deserve this?" (Pause.) "Yes, I do."
Emma: I loved that line. "It just occurred to me that you've never done it before, and thusly I am teaching you how it's done. That's a lot of power which I don't know if I deserve."
Lori: If he had decided not to go through with it, she would have had a total meltdown.
Emma: Well, yeah.
Margaret: Shosh: "You totally hate virgins."
Emma: She's already been in that situation once, and it was terrible.
Lori: I was happy for her too. He really cares about her and realizes that this is a big deal for her -- not as like a notch on his belt.
Margaret: I love that her first time is with someone who appreciates her. How often does that really happen?
Emma: Yeah, Ray came off really well this episode. He calmed her fears without being at all condescending.
Lori: He was honored to be her first.
Emma: Yeah, he was. And I think he does find her really interesting. Ray's thing is that he gets bored with girls. And Shosh is definitely NOT boring.
Margaret: I can't imagine that she could ever bore anyone.
Lori: OK, so everyone take a minute to be happy about their happiness. And then let's move on to Hannah and Adam.


Emma: Oy.
Lori: Good start.
Margaret: Can we begin with the move-out? Remember when Adam says, "Look there's an ice cream truck" to distract Hannah?
Emma: Yup.
Margaret: I thought that was setting the stage for him to be the kind of jerk we've seen him be in the past all over again.
Lori: I didn't notice that! But I think the main thing here is what he says himself: When he commits, he really commits. And that's with no flexibility. He's so all-or-nothing.
Margaret: The intensity of his devotion felt a little sudden to me. I know we've been building to it, but still, for him to be suddenly such a romantic was strange.
Emma: I didn't find it all that strange. It seemed pretty in line with his character. To borrow a phrase from Charlie, he "decided on her," so he figured she should be there right with him. He's very used to having the power in relationships, I think. And their shifting power dynamics were fascinating to me.
Lori: Remember his play? He wanted it to be his way or the highway.
Emma: I will say that the way Hannah handled the whole who-was-going-to-move-in-with-her thing was not good.
Margaret: I felt for her, though.
Emma: I did too. But a real conversation needed to be had. And it wasn't.
Lori: But the second Elijah mentioned the SRO, I got REALLY excited. I didn't even think about Adam, honestly. I was just like, Yes!! More Elijah next season!
Margaret: I am SO excited about this.
Emma: Me too. And Adam moving in would have been the wrong decision.
Margaret: Terrible.
Emma: However, I did feel bad for him that she didn't seem to take his request seriously. I think that she did push him to commit to her. And that is understandably hurtful when now she's pushing him away.
Lori: Did you notice when she and Adam were dancing and he told her they were in it for the long haul or something?
Emma: YES. She was so freaked out.
Margaret: Yes, but that was great. She finally articulated her ambitions.
Lori: And this is what I mean about her being more mature about relationships than she thinks. She has enough perspective to realize that relationships are important, but they can't be your everything.
Emma: I agree. But she doesn't yet know how to properly communicate about those difficult things. Which is understandable -- I think most people in their 20s don't. I also think that she's not used to being the person who wants to slow things down.
Lori: I thought it was interesting that she said they distract each other. I can understand that -- you have to figure out how to get your stuff done and also have this other person in your life.
Margaret: She was also the one to point out to Adam that Jess and Thomas hardly know each other.
Lori: Adam clearly doesn't really know her either.
Emma: But I also thought that Adam said some really insightful things about Hannah and her insecurities. She doesn't like to accept someone loving her, and she doesn't accept that she has talent. She's terrified of both those things. Adam says: "You think you're not pretty and you're not a good writer and you're not a good friend. Well, you are pretty and you are a good writer and you are a good friend." And I think that's really true.
Lori: I agree. But the exchange about her weight ... it was so painful. And Adam said it with such anger.
Emma: Ugh, that was awful.
Lori: It reminded me of the time she told him she chose to focus on other things besides her weight. We see here just how much she must struggle to do that.
Margaret: I think he genuinely doesn't see how emotional that is for her, though. In his mind, that doesn't register as a painful thing.
Emma: I don't want to completely generalize, but I'm not sure that most men understand that sort of thing.
Margaret: Can we talk about her statement that she's "the most scared person alive"? Adam's response seemed intended to point back to Hannah's privilege, which the show emphasized so much at the beginning: "You don't have the right to be." She doesn't, in the big scheme of things, and yet that's how she feels.
Emma: To state the obvious, being privileged doesn't mean you don't experience internal emotional struggles. I think that kind of goes back to her thinking that her writing is "trivial." Her struggles are her struggles, whether or not someone else thinks they matter.
Lori: His argument made sense in places and didn't in others. Like when he shouted, "You don't know me." OK, and yet he wanted to move in with her and be with her for the long haul? How does he know that?
Margaret: But when he said, "I'm a beautiful f*cking mystery to you," I think that's probably true. And I think she likes it that way. Everyone is a potential character ...
Emma: Definitely true! I think he's a little less appealing now that she feels like she's figured him out.
Lori: It is true, but that's my point. He can't get mad at her for being uncertain about him if he's a mystery. I mean, he can, but it's not fair.
Emma: The fight scene was so effective emotionally because they were both making these really valid points and at the same time both missing the mark. It felt real to me.
Lori: Yes, it was just escalating with bits of truth and bits of just pure emotion.
Emma: Exactly. And then he gets hit by a car ...
Lori: And then calls her a monster from the ambulance
Emma: That was petty -- not letting her go with him to the hospital.
Margaret: But it seemed like him. "Family only!"
Lori: Just like him.
Emma: Absolutely.
Lori: He reacts and then just goes with it. He's going to feel bad in the morning.
Margaret: So, the final scene.


Emma: What did you think?
Margaret: L.D. was great. I bet it is hard to do silent scenes that are that long and still convey what's going on for the character emotionally.
Emma: I thought that it was really fitting to end the season with just her.
Lori: Her and the cake that he wouldn't eat.
Emma: And each of the other Girls had gone off by themselves.
Lori: Hannah was kind of at peace for a moment.
Margaret: That was peace? It felt like a fugue state to me, like she was disassociating.
Emma: But even in her haze, I felt like it was kind of hopeful.
Lori: Yes, resigned but also hopeful.
Emma: Even without her purse and without her boyfriend and without her best friend roommate, she's fine.
Lori: Exactly. She'll be OK.
Margaret: The End?
Lori: The End

Read HuffPost Women's previous "Girls" Gchats:

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad


QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
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Are These Quotes About "Girls" Or "Sex And The City"?